Author Topic: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3  (Read 23923 times)

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Offline ท่านขุน

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Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:41:55 pm »
พวกเราคงเคยอ่านเรื่องราวทำนองนี้มาหลายครั้งแล้ว  ครั้งนี้เป็นอีกครั้งที่ถือว่ายอดเยี่ยมเลยครับ

 เริ่มเรื่องจากราวๆเดือนกันยายนปีที่แล้ว 2007   สมาชิกของกลุ่มE30 M3 คนนึงก็ได้รับการติดต่อจากเพื่อนในกลุ่มให้ไปดูรถแข่ง M3 คันนึงในคาลิฟอร์เนีย
ที่ประกาศขาย  จริงๆ แล้วมีคนสนใจมาก  แต่พอเอาเข้าจริงๆ กลายเป็นโอกาสของคนฟลอริด้าไปซะได้

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 10:43:38 pm »
รูปถ่ายล๊อตแรกเป็นรูปถ่ายที่ว่าที่เจ้าของคนใหม่ได้รับ  ก่อนตัดสินใจครับ

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 10:45:21 pm »
ผมเดาเองว่า  คนที่พอดูออก  ก็จะสงสัยเหมือนกับว่า  ของในรถมันดูแปลกๆๆ 

เรื่องราวที่ได้รับทางโทรศัพท์บอกไว้ว่าเป็นรถปี 90  เจ้าของคนปัจจุบันครอบครองมาแล้ว 15 ปี  และก็จอดนิ่งๆ มา 10ปีแล้ว  ตัวถังเป็น motorsport chassis แต่หาเอกสารอ้างอิงไม่เจอ   
แล้วก็บอกว่าเครื่องยนต์  ช่วงล่างและระบบส่งกำลังก็เป็นของแข่งแท้แน่นอน  เฟืองท้ายเบอร์ 4.45   พวงมาลัยหมุนสุดซ้ายขวาสองรอบพอดีรถคันนี้ขายพร้อมกับอะไหล่แข่งจำนวนหนึ่ง

Offline thanases

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 10:45:41 pm »
ผมมาปูเสื่อ นอนรอ แล้วคุณเอ  :good:
แรงด้วย สวยด้วย

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 10:47:52 pm »
แล้วพ่อหนุ่ม thomas ก็ตัดสินใจซื้อมันกลางอากาศ   เอามาก่อน  จะเอามาเป็น track car  กลัวว่ารถบ้านสี lachsilber ของตัวเองจะเป็นรอย

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 10:49:06 pm »
เป็นผมๆ ก็เอา   

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 10:50:46 pm »
แล้วในรูปล๊อตแรกนี้  ก็พบว่ามีเศษอะไหล่แถมมาให้หน่อยนึง  พอปลอบใจ  เพราะว่าตกลงซื้อไปแล้ว

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 10:53:53 pm »
พอจ่ายเงินเสร็จ  ก็วานให้เพื่อนใน club ที่ช่วยประสานงาน  ไปเอารถมาตรวจสภาพก่อนที่จะวางแผนส่งจาก CA ไป FL

ระหว่างนั้น  ในเน็ทก็ช่วยกันวิเคราะห์กันแหลกราญ
เมื่อดูละเอียดๆ จากรูปถ่าย  หลายสิ่งหลายอย่างในรถคันนี้  ค่อยๆ เผยออกว่ามันเป็นรถแข่ง old spec  คือหลายสิ่งหลายอย่างที่มีอยู่ เป็นของรถแข่งรุ่นแรกๆ 
อาจจะย้อนไปถึงปี 87- 88  แต่ที่แน่ๆ  เซียนๆ หลายคนกล่าวว่ามันเป็น Group A แท้ๆ แน่นอน

Offline ท่านขุน

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 10:57:19 pm »
รวมไปถึงคนที่ครอบครองรถแข่ง E30 M3 DTM สีแดง Bastos ก็เข้ามาให้ความเห็น

"I wouldn't be too concerned if the was 88 spec. or 90, as Grelley quite correctly said, it may have been built in 1990
using earlier spec. parts. One thing I have noticed since buying my car, is that you are unlikely to come across two Group A
or DTM cars that have been built to exactly the same spec.- they all seem to have detail differences.
Although I AM NO EXPERT on these cars (I am still learning a LOT since buying mine!) I would base any future purchase on the following:
-Is the asking price based on a "famous" history, and can this be proven? If the owner has factored in a percentage based on it being
ex-Ravaglia etc. then you will want some documentation to prove it. It seems nearly all Group A/DTM cars for sale are "ex works" if you catch my drift!
-Was it built from GENUINE Motorsport parts, including the correct Matter Shell? Does it have the MS part number on the shell?
-Condition of all parts, does the engine/gearbox/suspension need rebuilding? Has the shell had more hits than Elvis? Some cars are
ready to race, while others (like mine!) have been "raced hard and put away wet" and need extensive money spent to get them back up to scratch.
-spares package: are there any? If you are going to race it (and you are!)you really want one or two spare sets of wheels, and an extra diff ratio or
two. You will also need a big MF torque wrench for the wheels, and regulator/coupling for the air jacks. These parts are expensive (and sometimes
difficult) to find if they do not come with the car.

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 10:59:19 pm »
- Is there a local race series you can compete in? This will have some effect on the value to you, after all while they make a nice ornament I think
show cars just miss the point, these cars were built to race.
You will rarely "tick all the boxes" when looking at these cars- after all they are a 20 year old race car, and not all of their previous owners may have
 lavished attention on them. Just consider these things when looking at the asking price. Most people selling these will give you the impression that
 these cars are very rare and sought after, and to a point they are. They are also very expensive to own and run, and subsequently the market for
them is small and they may take some time to sell. Do your due diligence and don't rush into buying it for fear someone else will snap it up (unless
 it is REALLY cheap!) There will always be another for sale just around the corner."

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 11:00:41 pm »
น่าสนใจมากคือหลายคนบอกง่ายๆ ว่าให้ไปเช็คเลขตัวถัง  สิ่งที่ไม่ง่ายคือเลขตัวถัง motorsport อยู่ตรงไหนกัน  จริงๆ แล้วก้มีคนออกมาช่วยเฉลยว่ารถแข่งเยอรมันแท้ๆ
จะมีเอกสารกำกับติดตัวมาด้วย  เรียกว่า wagen pass ออกโดยหน่วยงานที่เรียกว่า Deutsche Motor Sport Bund
รถ M3 ที่ออกมาจาก Matter  จะพ่นสีภายในสีแดง  จะมีเลขตัวถังพิเศษ motorsport ปั๊มอยู่ใต้บานพับประตูซ้าย  ส่วนที่ออกจากอีกโรงงาน  Linden จะพ่นคนละสี  สีฟ้า
แล้วเลขตัวถังเป็นแบบไหน  ยังไม่เคยอ่านเจอครับ

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 11:02:51 pm »
อีกเซียนใหญ่ที่มี รถแข่ง ex-BTCC เข้ามาแจม
I really believe thats a pretty early chassis and would be very surprised if it was a 1990 build. It looks ALOT like my car did when
 I got it and mine was an early 1987 delivery to Prodrive.
The first thing you need to check is the Chassis number. That will tell ALOT.
You NEED the chassis number. That tells alot,,, or it starts the breadcrumb trail to see if the car has any provenance.

If its a real Matter chassis it will be stamped in the windshield scuttle, probably painted over 100 times. It will read M31_XXX.
My bet it will be an 0XX number.
Mine is M31_068 and is an ex Prodrive car. Oddly enough Ralph Evans ex Schnitzer DTM car is M31_069 I believe (or 067) I always
remember we have consecutive chassis, just can never remember which way (but I digress).

The other things I noticed it looks like it has AP brakes like the ones on my car. The calipers are even ground down the same places mine are.

That looks like what my airbox was supposed to look like before it was damaged and repaired 4-5 times in its life. Thats a history piece.
No not the most modern, but a good timepiece.

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 11:04:56 pm »
พอถึงตอนนี้ก็เห็นกันจะๆ แล้วว่าเป็นตัวถัง motorsport หมายเลข 1-126  เซียนๆ ก้เข้ามาแจมกันเต็มไปหมดเลย

You have my most sincere congratulations.
Looks like you have chassis 126.
You drop the first 1 (as in M3(series)1, then the next three are the chassis number.

Thats a fairly early car, a little later than mine, but in the same vintage.
Your car has the same front wishbones mine shipped with, but at a later date in its evolution Prodrive upgraded to the 2nd Gen tubular suspension (with the 1991 version being 3rd Gen).
The fact that no one ever updated the front suspension on that car makes me wonder just how long its been mothballed.
You could have a very unused car there.

I would bin all every rod ends (thats what I did)
Trash every fluid carrying line and all the fuel cel bits.
My car I still have the "original" fuel pumps Prodive installed, but changed everything else.

I also wonder about the Schnitzer sticker, that combined with the red interior / chassis could give some hints to its background.
If you want I can send your chassis number to the guys who helped me track down info on mine,,, see what they come back with.
No guarantees,,, but I'm happy to help.

Good on ya. Thats a great find.
Best of luck with the project.
If there is anything I can do to help you during the restoration, please do not hesitate to email me.
To me,,, where you are right now,,, the inititial phases,,, the taking it apart, the discovery period,,, was the absolute most fun of my restoration.
Every day was like opening up a hidden treasure seeing what you might find hidden for years.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 11:44:16 pm by ท่านขุน »

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 11:05:42 pm »
อีกคนที่มีรถแข่งแท้ๆ ก็เข้ามาร่วมด้วย

Nice Thomas, Im glad you picked it up. I was hoping you would and everyone
I talked to over here describing what you had found also thought you should snap it up.

On your valve cover you have the marking "B 353" -- that motor used to use
a special race oil from Castrol called B353 (or the valve cover came from a motor
that once used that oil). Do you know what is in there now?

Good to see that you have shim under buckets in the engine.
Cant tell by the picture what MS cams those are.

Youve got the MS X-pipe, that looks like the one from the S14/6 motor.

It looks like the car once ran a side exit exhaust. That would explain
why it had a P5 chip in it at some point. The P8 chip is for a 2.3l with the
normal exhaust. Since its a 2.5l, you should have a different chip in there
now.

The recaro seat shell should be fiberglass since the marking on the sticker
says "GF" ("Glass Faser").

the aeroquip lines and connectors look like they are in good shape.

You could take the front and rear axles out and recondition them.

With the engine, you could run it some and then see if you get better
leak down numbers. But since you have your own shop, you could
disassemble the motor and go thru it to be on the safe side. With some
luck you wont have to replace much other than pistons rings, new rod bolts,
bearings, etc. That way you also know exactly what condition the motor is
in. e.g. you could check if its running the correct & updated valve springs
(if they are the old type, change them out).

Afterall, you already have a brand new Gr. A 2.5l to install in the car.


When will you have the car in florida? Will it be there when Im there?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 11:45:26 pm by ท่านขุน »

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 11:06:41 pm »
สามอาทิตย์ผ่านไป  ได้ข้อมูลเพิ่ม  ว่ารถคันนี้เคยแข่งใน macau  และเคยชนะ asian touringcar champion  เจ้าของคือ Kelvin Wong  และคนขับอีกคนคือชาร์ล กวาน

I got a little history from the guy that owned it or at least what he remembers.
This car was raced in Macao China and won the Asian Touring car champion ship. Then when the FIA canceled
the series the car was running in, the owner sold it to his relative in the states.
The original owner was Kelvin Wong and I believe the co-driver was Charles Kwan they were driving for a team
called Tech one racing or One Tech racing. Anyone of you guys know or heard of a team like that ?
the car was originally yellow not white. Jacky the guy that owns the car now had the car painted in white. he said
there are some pictures floating around from back in the day but to watch out because the car is yellow.
Not sure if that makes any sense but that's all I have for now.


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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2008, 11:07:41 pm »
ต่อด้วยอีกคนนึง
Charles Kwan must have had close ties to Schnitzer, he drove one of their cars in the 1993 Macau race and won it, the car was motorsport
stripes with "Watsons" applied over the top. As myself and others have already mentioned, don't be too surprised to find your car is originally built by Schnitzer.
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...3%20Macau.html

ประวัติ Charles Kwan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kwan


ตอนนี้ก็ประมาณปลายปีที่แล้ว  ขึ้นปี 2008 พอดี

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2008, 11:09:28 pm »
แล้วผมก็ไปเจอว่าอาจจะเป็นคันนี้   ได้รูปมาจากหนังสือรถแข่งญี่ปุ่นที่กองทิ้งที่อู่ LEK-A-ARM

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2008, 11:10:53 pm »
ขณะเดียวกัน  ทางเจ้าของก็มีความเชื่อว่าน่าจะเป็นคันนี้

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2008, 11:12:53 pm »
ขณะที่รอเวลา  เศษอะไหล่ก็ถูกส่งล่วงหน้า  ไปที่บ้านเจ้าของ   ตอนนี้รถยังมาไม่ถึง

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2008, 11:14:43 pm »
รูปเด็กนั่นไม่ใช่อะไหล่นะ   สงสัยผมจะเรียงผิด


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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2008, 11:16:48 pm »
อะไหล่มาเยอะกว่าที่คิด  จำได้ว่าล้อยี่สิบชุดได้มั๊ง  และตัวรถก็มาถึง FL จนได้

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2008, 11:18:19 pm »
หน้าตาผู้โชคดี 

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 11:21:42 pm »
เจอรถปุ๊บก็ร้องเจี๊ยกเลย   คันนี้เคยเป็นสีเหลืองนี่นา..............

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2008, 11:23:24 pm »
แต่เจ้า sticker  EK Schnitzer นี่สิ   ถามใครก็ไม่มีใครรู้ 

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Re: Story of an Anonymous E30 M3
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2008, 11:27:00 pm »
จนกระทั่ง  มีคนที่คนในวงการเค้าเชื่อถือ  ไปหาข้อมูลมาให้

Thanks for adding the photos,they were very interesting.Here is some more info'which may be of interest.

Your car when it raced in the '89 Italian series was in the usual white with diagonal 'BMW' stripes.It was sponsored by Agip
(the Italian state fuel company)/Concessionari BMW(Italian importers)/Serpi Star(Italian car alarms)/BMW Italia/RCM Motoscope.
The cars ran Yokohamas and were then in non-Evo'spec'.Johnny Cecotto did the whole series and won the championship with 130
points.he had either #1 or#99 as his race number.A second car was shared between BMW's contracted drivers,Roberto Ravaglia#3
 did 4 races,Emanuele Pirro#3 did 3 races,Dieter Quester and Fabien Giroix both#2 did 1 and 2 races respectively
.At the final race
the team ran three cars.I have the results for all of these races. I will now send this so i do not lose the text due to time restrictions
which apply on some forums.Ian>>quote

Next part!!I have tried to give you all the entries I have in my notes for Kevin Wong.The first entry I have is for'88 where he was 9th
at Macau in a white car with green lettering and backing from Autohaus.This car had its two fuel fillers in the boot(trunk) lid not where
they are usually found where the number plate would go! He may have bought a car from a team who ran two cars in the '87 race,
(Hartge/RSI) who had raced them three times in Europe but there is some confusion as to whether that was the case.As alredy stated
he then bought your car,chassis 126 in October '89 and raced it for the first time at Macau in that year,coming 10th the car still in its
Schnitzer colours.Other results from Macau are:1990 7th,white with blue/green diagonal stripes and red lettering,backing from
Mandarin Duck;1992 6th white with black/red stripes and panels;1993 6th still white plus red/black detailing; You may like to look
at www.hlj.com which is an English language Japanese based model company.Fill BMW M3 into the search box and thenscroll down
 to the Autotech M3,this will show you the only pure yellow car I know of that raced in the Far East,then click on Passenger M3 kits
and go to the one called Sogo Keibi
,this is the car which Wong drove at some Macau race as well as in a few Japanese events(more
details to follow).I have recently bought this model and it is awful,being simply a road car with a basic rollcage added plus the decals
.It has the wrong wheels and no other racing trim.I have had to buy the Studio 27 trans-kit which is designed to fit it to get a correct
model! End of part two!

quote>>These are the results I have when Mr Wong raced outside of Macau....1990 Fuji Intertec,Wong/Shimada 14th,race#10 entered by
Team Take One(this team is the constant thread throughout Wong's M3 career,because be always drove for them,although they were later
called Team Take One Overtake!Kwan/Mak were 20th at this race in a sister car.1991 Intertec #9 Kwan/Nakagawa and #10 Wong/Mak/Tajima
drove,no results known. In 1992 the team ran two cars in the Japanese series,both white with red/black stripes and panels.In one of them
Wong/Mak were 20th in #62 at the Intertec.In 1993 Kwan/Mak/Wong were 15th in the Intertec. Your photos showing the yellow spray and
overspray under the bonnet(hood) have really confused me as there has probably only been the Autotech car in yellow in all the Asian races.
They have raced an M3 for the whole of its race history in this region from '87 to'93 and could have sold an older car to the Wong/Kwan/Mak
 set up or even spares but other than those explanations I am baffled! I hope this has helped and that it triggers off others with further
information.All the best Ian.>>quote

Thanks Thomas
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 11:50:54 pm by ท่านขุน »

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